Yes - random placement of an item is possible.

No - the combat system has not made it that far yet. -- FantoM - 28 Jul 2006

• • • • magic commands underwater would be PK actions in this case, probably not likely they would be used then. I'd imagine a player from any guild having difficulty in using commands underwater. Hard to call upon nature waving a staff around in your hands while you are treading water. Or even trying to be sneaky and quick. Again, how realistic are we looking to make this? Should players not be able to use commands?
      • Should we alter/add new commands only to be used under water?
      • StormlordGuild- tsunami command for storms, using a fair chunk of gp, taking a lot of time/steps to cast while dealing enornomous amounts of damage. Obviously it would be impossible to call upon a tsunami anywhere else because of the need for such a large amount of water.
      • DruidsGuild- an attacking summon for druids, to call upon the "beasts" of the waters to aid them. Different from what is described just below in that they won't take damage for you like the summon currently does. Less damage than a minordamage but it is continuous, and drains upon your gp all while it is cast or it could have bracers of speed like effect. Maybe it can only be called upon a limited number of times. It would have an initial sum of gp to cast it and smaller amounts to continue.
      • ThievesGuild- avoidance command for thieves. It would increase their defense. Generally more agile and nimble than other players, they would have an easier time moving throughout the water. This could be another continuous command which drains your gp for as long as it is used with an initial sum of gp to cast it and smaller amounts to continue. If you break your concentration you would need to recast. We could call it eggbeater to justify it only being used underwater. For all those that aren't swimmers, eggbeater is the most efficient way to tread water, allowing you to be powerful and quick. If we don't like the idea of heightened defense then it could also provide a temporary bracers of speed effect. -- AureleaGu - 28 Jul 2006

I enjoy the thought of sunken treasure, although that would probably only be in water rooms considered to be oceans. It could work for lakes if someone just hid it there. In this case there could be a large monster protecting it. Maybe in the case of the ocean, the placement of it could be at random? Is the room generator able to do that? Both could be a once per boot occurrence. Of course not every water area could have this same idea.

The new combat system that was put into play... was that made to handle the combat alterations that were suggested previously? (see Puma comment from 14 Jan 2003) -- AureleaGu - 28 Jul 2006

Fair call: Sunken treasure. Quests. Others? -- FantoM - 27 Jul 2006

• You should be able to set the strength of the current. -- TigeR - 09 Jul 2004

• • Bread and other food wouldn't taste too good after, either. -- ProdigY - 09 Jul 2004

• • Current pets would need a range in which they may follow, but one where they may stop (suggest anything without a 'sink' room.) -- ProdigY - 09 Jul 2004

• • Fleeing. Movement in water is slower, to flee would be harder. -- ProdigY - 09 Jul 2004

• • Or the grid opposite the direction they just swam. (swim SE -> NW most 'box' of the grid). Unless the boxes are only for the current to move the player. -- ProdigY - 09 Jul 2004

• What effects stamina? Must be some skill a player could raise in order to become better at 'holding their breath' or (strength?) 'swimming against the current'. Perhaps other.points -- ProdigY - 09 Jul 2004
  • Do we assume NPC's are supposed to be there and not concern ourselves with their swimming ability? Must have a way of changing messages for 'wandering' underwater NPC's.

• This would be nice for avoiding current - perhaps going deeper so as to not be dragged away by the current. -- ProdigY - 09 Jul 2004

• This would be straight down? May depend on the current strength as well as the players weight, and strength. -- ProdigY - 09 Jul 2004

Swim into cave ->

• Air pockets?
• Bubbles from underwater plant life.

The message when someone arrives or leaves should be changed to something like "[person] swims in." and/or "[person] swims [direction]"

-- TigeR - 02 Jun 2004

To not have the players being drawn back by the current as soon as they enter a room, before being able to type a new direction command, I was thinking they should keep swimming in the direction last entered, until they type another direction, or 'look'.

• And how do we handle them swiming east into a room which doesn't have an east exit? -- FantoM - 29 May 2003

To not have the players being drawn back by the current as soon as they enter a room, before being able to type a new direction command, they should try staying in the same spot, swimming against the current at the same speed as it.

'Look' would make them try to stay in the same spot, meaning swimming against the current if any is present. There should also be a command 'float' which makes you simply follow the current.

• I'd suggest that they swim in a direction until they reach the next room at which they implicitly "float". That way we handle the problem I mention above and also keep it as reasonably similiar to the movement in the rest of the mud. When you swim east you swim east until you see something of note, you look around (this is the arival in the next room). You then swim further on command or you tread water (float). Floating would consume very little stamina. -- FantoM - 29 May 2003

There should also be a command 'float' which makes you simply follow the current.

• Grids should be treated as cubic 3x3x3's instead. The players feet is in the bottom middle grid. When he swims down he would flip his feets over his head and have to swim down the x2y1z2 room (bottom/middle). water surface has only 2 Y grids (missing the top). That way the players head will end up above the surface. shallow ponds have only 1 Y grid and only legs or feet will be in water. These grids are ofcourse only theoretical -- FreD - 02 Dec 2003 21:16

Swimming uses up stamina, at a varying rate dependant on how good a swimmer you are and how burdened you are.

• Floating should be subject to the same alterations to the consumption of stamina -- FantoM - 29 May 2003

Swimming/floating uses up stamina, at a varying rate dependant on how good a swimmer you are and how burdened you are.

Syntax suggestion by ElffyB: "The current here is 'strong' you are being swept to the east you can; dive, float, swim east, swim west or look."

Breathpoints have been done already -- PumaN - 22 Jan 2004

• • Items that boost ability (fred)
    • flippers and such(fred)

• underwater gcommands
  • lightning
  • fry
    • I would think this would be a bit hard. Even though pure water is an insulator, if you are sitting in a pond or something, I think lightning would do a significant amount of damage to EVERYONE...including the caster. Might wanna consider this -- DevonScarfe - 30 Sep 2003
  • sandstorm could be whirlpool and wave effects ... etc

• underwater magic
  • lightning (fry, lightning)
    • Even though pure water is an insulator, if you are sitting in a pond or something, I think lightning would do a significant amount of damage to EVERYONE...including the caster. -- DevonScarfe - 30 Sep 2003
  • fire
  • ice (icestorm, hailstorm)
  • air (sandstorm) - could be whirlpool and wave effects ... etc

• boats and possibly something that works underwater also.
• a floating controlable vehicle

• boats and possibly something that works underwater also (a floating controlable vehicle)
  • Large (that span over multiple rooms and require many players to move) (fred)
  • Small (fred)

• Grids should be treated as cubic 3x3x3's instead. The players feet is in the bottom middle grid. When he swims down he would flip his feets over his head and have to swim down the x2y1z2 room (bottom/middle). water surface has only 2 Y grids (missing the top). That way the players head will end up above the surface. shallow ponds have only 1 Y grid and only legs or feet will be in water. These grids are ofcourse only theoretical -- FreD - 02 Dec 2003 21:16

Interesting ideas from the design channel...

Thu Oct 16 00:49:05 2003: ranma : Ember? You awake? Thu Oct 16 00:49:31 2003: ranma : anyways...breathing underwater...

Thu Oct 16 00:50:01 2003: fry : there is a line for this? Thu Oct 16 00:50:13 2003: fry : nifty...WHY?

Thu Oct 16 00:50:23 2003: ranma : you get "breath points" or Bp: based on your ot.swimming skill, much like ot.st affects hp

Thu Oct 16 00:50:59 2003: fry : it should include stamina shouldn't it? since your stamina would effect your ability to hold your breath

Thu Oct 16 00:51:41 2003: ranma : ok....Yeah, Con should effect your Bp:

Thu Oct 16 00:52:01 2003: fry : but no stamina?

Thu Oct 16 00:52:09 2003: ranma : being underwater depletes Bp: depended on depth.....

Thu Oct 16 00:52:13 2003: ranma : getting to stamina

Thu Oct 16 00:53:37 2003: ranma : if you are at a deeper depth....inherit WATER_ROOM; set_depth(ranges from 1-20 lets say); you lose bp faster...for instance... being at a depth of 5 ft is less straining than a depth of say...100

Thu Oct 16 00:54:15 2003: ranma : once you run out of Bp: it starts draining your hp, you start drowning

Thu Oct 16 00:54:37 2003: fry : would it drain a % of hp or a straight amount?

Thu Oct 16 00:54:45 2003: ranma : we could make potions of "water breathing" or something that could replenish or grant unlimited Breath Point (Bp:)

Thu Oct 16 00:54:55 2003: ranma : % would be more fair....

Thu Oct 16 00:55:33 2003: ranma : Should higher lvl players be allowed to drown longer? I don't think so

Idea of breathinging underwater (original from Ranma, Ember, and a bit from Fry; chopped by Fred)

I like the being able to set depth....like water rooms at the top have a depth of 1, 2 for the room below it, 3 for the room below that...etc. 10 ft of depth per number. I think Bp: Is a good idea...

You get "breath points" or Bp: based on your ot.swimming skill, much like ot.st affects hp
Stamina and Con affects your Bp, how it is drain and total amount.
being underwater depletes Bp depended on depth.

To set depth of water room:

• set_depth(range from say 1-20)

once you run out of Bp: it starts draining your hp, you start drowning.
Potions could replenish or grant unlimited Bp..
Higher lvl players drown as easily as lowlvl players.
Water rooms at the top have a depth of 1, 2 for the room below it, 3 for the room below that...etc.

• 10 ft of depth per number.

-- DonaldKincannon - 02 Nov 2003

-- DonaldKincannon?

Interesting ideas from the design channel...

Thu Oct 16 00:49:05 2003: ranma : Ember? You awake? Thu Oct 16 00:49:31 2003: ranma : anyways...breathing underwater...

Thu Oct 16 00:50:01 2003: fry : there is a line for this? Thu Oct 16 00:50:13 2003: fry : nifty...WHY?

Thu Oct 16 00:50:23 2003: ranma : you get "breath points" or Bp: based on your ot.swimming skill, much like ot.st affects hp

Thu Oct 16 00:50:59 2003: fry : it should include stamina shouldn't it? since your stamina would effect your ability to hold your breath

Thu Oct 16 00:51:41 2003: ranma : ok....Yeah, Con should effect your Bp:

Thu Oct 16 00:52:01 2003: fry : but no stamina?

Thu Oct 16 00:52:09 2003: ranma : being underwater depletes Bp: depended on depth.....

Thu Oct 16 00:52:13 2003: ranma : getting to stamina

Thu Oct 16 00:53:37 2003: ranma : if you are at a deeper depth....inherit WATER_ROOM; set_depth(ranges from 1-20 lets say); you lose bp faster...for instance... being at a depth of 5 ft is less straining than a depth of say...100

Thu Oct 16 00:54:15 2003: ranma : once you run out of Bp: it starts draining your hp, you start drowning

Thu Oct 16 00:54:37 2003: fry : would it drain a % of hp or a straight amount?

Thu Oct 16 00:54:45 2003: ranma : we could make potions of "water breathing" or something that could replenish or grant unlimited Breath Point (Bp:)

Thu Oct 16 00:54:55 2003: ranma : % would be more fair....

Thu Oct 16 00:55:33 2003: ranma : Should higher lvl players be allowed to drown longer? I don't think so

I like the being able to set depth....like water rooms at the top have a depth of 1, 2 for the room below it, 3 for the room below that...etc. 10 ft of depth per number. I think Bp: Is a good idea...

-- DonaldKincannon - 02 Nov 2003

• • • I would think this would be a bit hard. Even though pure water is an insulator, if you are sitting in a pond or something, I think lightning would do a significant amount of damage to EVERYONE...including the caster. Might wanna consider this -- DevonScarfe - 30 Sep 2003

• And how do we handle them swiming east into a room which doesn't have an east exit? -- FantoM - 29 May 2003

• I'd suggest that they swim in a direction until they reach the next room at which they implicitly "float". That way we handle the problem I mention above and also keep it as reasonably similiar to the movement in the rest of the mud. When you swim east you swim east until you see something of note, you look around (this is the arival in the next room). You then swim further on command or you tread water (float). Floating would consume very little stamina. -- FantoM - 29 May 2003

• Swimming into a room would place you in the centre of the grid I presume? -- FantoM - 29 May 2003

• Floating should be subject to the same alterations to the consumption of stamina -- FantoM - 29 May 2003

If you run out of stamina, you start to sink, once submerged, you will try to hold your breath for as long as possible and then start losing life. (swimming in deep water when youre not too good at it wont be an advisable affair)

If you run out of stamina, you start to sink, once submerged, you will try to hold your breath for as long as possible and then start losing life. (swimming in deep water when you're not too good at it won't be an advisable affair)

I'd suggest that we also have some point at which they are so burdened relative to their swimming skill that they simply sink while they still have stamina. At this point they can drop stuff and swim to the surface.

-- FantoM - 29 May 2003

Swimming design:

To be able to handle currents and swimming, we need a different kind of movement system, which is delayed.

To not have the players being drawn back by the current as soon as they enter a room, before being able to type a new direction command, I was thinking they should keep swimming in the direction last entered, until they type another direction, or 'look'.

'Look' would make them try to stay in the same spot, meaning swimming against the current if any is present. There should also be a command 'float' which makes you simply follow the current.

Each room could be divided in a 3x3 grid, in which we move them, this will not be visible to players, but as they progress through the squares, they get messages on where they are heading. (ie, "You try to swim west, but the current is too strong and you are pulled southeast.")

Swimming uses up stamina, at a varying rate dependant on how good a swimmer you are and how burdened you are.

If you run out of stamina, you start to sink, once submerged, you will try to hold your breath for as long as possible and then start losing life. (swimming in deep water when youre not too good at it wont be an advisable affair)

-- PumaN - 22 Apr 2003

- type of hook that limits actions while in water.

• type of hook that limits actions while in water. We should use verbs for this -- PumaN

- movement water travel other than swimming trainable swimming ablility natural swimming ablility depth, pressure, breathing, currents, sinking - encumberance, weight vs swimming vs drowning - inventory carrying wearing wielding - hearing, talking - smelling - seeing light fire, able to have a lit torch at the bottom of a lake now - underwater gcommands lightning fry sandstorm could be whirlpool and wave effects ... etc underwater a druid would call things like fish, eels, turtles - blue text - combat fired weapons - corpses - death - weather (snow,ice, winter time..) - any kind of vehicle thing - boats and possibly something that works underwater also. - a floating controlable vehicle - floating objects set_material in objects, float/no float is do-able Elffy: it should be given a higher than other priority ... because there are lots of things pending because of this ...

• movement
  • water travel other than swimming
  • trainable swimming ablility
  • natural swimming ablility
  • depth, pressure, breathing, currents, sinking
  • walking
• encumbrance, weight vs swimming vs drowning
• inventory
  • carrying
  • wearing
  • wielding
• hearing, talking
• smelling
• seeing
  • light / fire
• underwater gcommands
  • lightning
  • fry
  • sandstorm could be whirlpool and wave effects ... etc
• underwater a druid would call things like fish, eels, turtles
• blue text
• combat
  • fired weapons
  • piercing and special weapons only
• corpses
• death
• weather (snow,ice, winter time..)
• any kind of vehicle thing
• boats and possibly something that works underwater also.
• a floating controlable vehicle
• floating objects
  • set_material in objects, float/no float is do-able

ElffyB: it should be given a higher than other priority ... because there are lots of things pending because of this ...

*swimming
 - type of hook that limits actions while in water.

   - movement
      water travel other than swimming
      trainable swimming ablility
      natural swimming ablility
      depth, pressure, breathing, currents, sinking
   - encumberance, weight vs swimming vs drowning
   - inventory
      carrying
      wearing
      wielding
   - hearing, talking
   - smelling
   - seeing
      light
        fire, able to have a lit torch at the bottom of a lake now
   - underwater gcommands
      lightning
      fry
      sandstorm could be whirlpool and wave effects ... etc
      underwater a druid would call things like fish, eels, turtles
 - blue text
 - combat
     fired weapons
 - corpses 
 - death
 - weather (snow,ice, winter time..)
 - any kind of vehicle thing
   - boats and possibly something that works underwater also.
   - a floating controlable vehicle
 - floating objects
     set_material in objects, float/no float is do-able

-- EmbeR - 10 Feb 2003

Some streams/creeks may be too shallow to swim in. Maybe have the player able to walk through those areas but be more difficult to get through ... ?

After swimming for awhile it should effect the players hearing.

a river/pond/lake/etc should be a fillable source for buckets/vials/etc ( idea by Elffy ) (if I swim in water, do my vials/buckets fill up?;)

a river/pond/lake/etc should be a fillable source for buckets/vials/etc ( idea by Elffy )

• if I swim in water, do my vials/buckets fill up? -- PumaN - 14 Jan 2003
• I'd suggest that not only do any fillable things fill but also any open containers get diluted. -- FantoM - 14 Jan 2003

Combat should be slowed underwater, and only piercing weapons can have any effect there

Combat should be slowed underwater, and only piercing weapons can have any effect there -- PumaN - 14 Jan 2003

• The ability to alter combat under water will be possible as a result of the combat/combat controller concepts being discussed on the Combat web. -- FantoM - 14 Jan 2003

• Corpses after a while might float? although to make it easy we could start with everything sinking. Later on things could perhaps specify if they float in water or sink. -- FantoM - 14 Jan 2003

-- EmbeR - 14 Jan 2003, cursive text by PumaN

-- EmbeR - 14 Jan 2003

Different liquids to swim in ( river stream lake pond ocean )

Different environments to swim in ( river stream lake pond ocean )

a river/pond/lake/etc should be a fillable source for buckets/vials/etc ( idea by Elffy )

a river/pond/lake/etc should be a fillable source for buckets/vials/etc ( idea by Elffy ) (if I swim in water, do my vials/buckets fill up?;)

I think combat goes too fast in water and there should be more misses.

Combat should be slowed underwater, and only piercing weapons can have any effect there

-- EmbeR - 14 Jan 2003

-- EmbeR - 14 Jan 2003, cursive text by PumaN

%META:TOPICINFO{author="EmbeR" date="1042504469" format="1.0" version="1.1"}% %META:TOPICPARENT{name="WebHome"}% Right now water rooms are still under development. Add your suggestions you think how water rooms should/shouldn't operate.

Level/pressure

Timed drowning. surface/underwater

Swimming in armour

Swimming carrying stuff

Different liquids to swim in ( river stream lake pond ocean )

a river/pond/lake/etc should be a fillable source for buckets/vials/etc ( idea by Elffy )

I think combat goes too fast in water and there should be more misses.

I killed a bug in the pond and said "A corpse of a tadpole is on the ground." I think they should float or sink to the bottom ( corpses probably don't float )

Fighting underwater should speed up the timed drowing.

If someone is swimming in a river it should have the potential to pull the player down stream.

-- EmbeR - 14 Jan 2003